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Yaris, Scion xD, Honda Fit - no water temp gauge

 
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ACAR

External


Since: May 02, 2007
Posts: 27



(Msg. 31) Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:58 am
Post subject: Re: Yaris, Scion xD, Honda Fit - no water temp gauge [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>autos>tech, others (more info?)

On Apr 4, 1:56 pm, wrote:
snip
>
> Also, the next bigger models that do have the water temp gauge would
> be Toyota Corolla, Matrix, or Honda Civic. But the extra purchase/
> ownership cost may not even offset the possible repair costs resulting
> from a Yaris/Fit/xD engine overheating (which, if happens, would be
> several years down the road.)
>
> TIA,
> Bubba

I'm gonna challenge your assumption that the Corolla, although
somewhat more expensive to purchase, delivering 26/35 mpg and with
historically outstanding reliability, will cost more to operate and
insure than the smaller cars on your list over the course of 250,000
miles.

You might want to test drive these cars on the same roads and at the
same speeds as your daily commute.

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zzyzzx

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Since: Apr 09, 2008
Posts: 3



(Msg. 32) Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Yaris, Scion xD, Honda Fit - no water temp gauge [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Then get a Ford Focus, or some other similiar car with a gauge
instead. Then call up all the makers of the cars that you didn't buy
and mention that a lack of temperature gauge was why you didn't buy
their car.

I wouldn't buy a car without a temperature gauge, or tachometer
either. That and I always add a voltmeter.

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Scott Dorsey

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Since: Aug 24, 2005
Posts: 281



(Msg. 33) Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:44 pm
Post subject: Re: Yaris, Scion xD, Honda Fit - no water temp gauge [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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C. E. White wrote:
>Nissan Frontier do. I think my SO's RAV4 does as well, but I have not had a
>chance to review the wiring diagrams to be sure. I suspect if you want
>"real" gauges you will need to install them yourself, or buy a German car.

Shamefully, even BMW has embraced the fake gauges. I cannot imagine what
they were thinking.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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jim beam

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Since: Aug 20, 2006
Posts: 1213



(Msg. 34) Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:06 am
Post subject: Re: Yaris, Scion xD, Honda Fit - no water temp gauge [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Scott Dorsey wrote:
> C. E. White wrote:
>> Nissan Frontier do. I think my SO's RAV4 does as well, but I have not had a
>> chance to review the wiring diagrams to be sure. I suspect if you want
>> "real" gauges you will need to install them yourself, or buy a German car.
>
> Shamefully, even BMW has embraced the fake gauges. I cannot imagine what
> they were thinking.
> --scott
>

they were thinking through the engineering functions rationally and
logically!
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jim beam

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Since: Aug 20, 2006
Posts: 1213



(Msg. 35) Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:07 am
Post subject: Re: Yaris, Scion xD, Honda Fit - no water temp gauge [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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zzyzzx wrote:
> Then get a Ford Focus, or some other similiar car with a gauge
> instead. Then call up all the makers of the cars that you didn't buy
> and mention that a lack of temperature gauge was why you didn't buy
> their car.
>
> I wouldn't buy a car without a temperature gauge, or tachometer
> either. That and I always add a voltmeter.


that makes no logical sense because the temperature gauge is extremely
non-linear. it doesn't really tell you anything other than whether the
motor is in the normal range or if it's too hot. and only one of those
two pieces of information is actually important. a light can do that
job, probably better because you might actually pay attention!

elmo's analogy is excellent because there's a lot of info about many
things that any machine operator doesn't actually need to know - they
only need to know if something is wrong. and this is one of those
situations.
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zzyzzx

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Since: Apr 09, 2008
Posts: 3



(Msg. 36) Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:49 am
Post subject: Re: Yaris, Scion xD, Honda Fit - no water temp gauge [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

> >Also, the next bigger models that do have the water temp gauge would
> >be Toyota Corolla, Matrix, or Honda Civic. But the extra purchase/
> >ownership cost may not even offset the possible repair costs resulting
> >from a Yaris/Fit/xD engine overheating (which, if happens, would be
> >several years down the road.)
>
> I wouldn't upgrade just for that feature.  Replace all the hoses every
> five years and don't worry about it.

People still do that? Hoses outlast engines these days. I have had
it happen twice already.
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jim beam

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Since: Aug 20, 2006
Posts: 1213



(Msg. 37) Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:13 pm
Post subject: Re: Yaris, Scion xD, Honda Fit - no water temp gauge [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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zzyzzx wrote:
>>> Also, the next bigger models that do have the water temp gauge would
>>> be Toyota Corolla, Matrix, or Honda Civic. But the extra purchase/
>>> ownership cost may not even offset the possible repair costs resulting
>> >from a Yaris/Fit/xD engine overheating (which, if happens, would be
>>> several years down the road.)
>> I wouldn't upgrade just for that feature. �Replace all the hoses every
>> five years and don't worry about it.
>
> People still do that? Hoses outlast engines these days. I have had
> it happen twice already.

two engines??? doubtless their demise was assisted by your close
attention to the highly accurate and meaningful temperature gauge.
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John Horner

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Since: May 08, 2005
Posts: 721



(Msg. 38) Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:13 am
Post subject: Re: Yaris, Scion xD, Honda Fit - no water temp gauge [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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wrote:
> I've been thinking about what my next commute car is going to be. 80
> miles/day, it's just me and my briefcase, so thinking of a small
> vehicle with great gas mileage. Yaris hatchback, Scion xD, or Honda
> Fit would work for me. Problem is, none of them has a water temp
> gauge, just an "idiot light."
>


Many present vehicles have software which "smooths" the response of the
water temperature gauge so much that is practically is an idiot light.

Not having one wouldn't be a deal breaker for me.
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Steve8

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Since: Jan 14, 2004
Posts: 616



(Msg. 39) Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 3:05 pm
Post subject: Re: Yaris, Scion xD, Honda Fit - no water temp gauge [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Scott Dorsey wrote:
> C. E. White wrote:
>> Nissan Frontier do. I think my SO's RAV4 does as well, but I have not had a
>> chance to review the wiring diagrams to be sure. I suspect if you want
>> "real" gauges you will need to install them yourself, or buy a German car.
>
> Shamefully, even BMW has embraced the fake gauges. I cannot imagine what
> they were thinking.

They were thinking "DAMN I wish all these nitwits that are complaining
because the oil pressure gauge moves when the engine changes speed would
go away and let us build cars!!"

People that don't have a clue about how an engine works and were
complaining to Ford about 'fluctuating oil pressure' (which was in fact
perfectly normal) are EXACTLY why Ford went to an idiot gauge (pressure
switch) way back when.

The "my car is a toaster" crowd that made the Camry the best stilling
POS in the world is ruining the driving experience for the rest of us
more and more every day.
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Steve8

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Since: Jan 14, 2004
Posts: 616



(Msg. 40) Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 3:09 pm
Post subject: Re: Yaris, Scion xD, Honda Fit - no water temp gauge [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article ,
> Steve wrote:
>
>> Just another sign of the "drivers are stupid, they don't need to know
>> anything" mentality of modern cars.
>
> Do you know the refrigerant pressure in your refrigerator? No? Why not?

Because, unlike a car, a refrigerator's refrigerant system is
hermetically sealed. It CANNOT leak unless its physically punctured.
Refrigerators don't fail by losing refrigerant, they fail when the
compressor locks up or burns out.

>
> Do you know the temperature inside your fridge? Oh, I see--you added a
> thermometer so you'd know. The little "1-6" dial isn't enough for you,
> so you added something the manufacturer didn't include. And yet you
> bought the fridge anyhow.
>


That is without a doubt the STUPIDEST analogy I've ever read.

And if you really see a car as equivalent to an 'appliance,' then we've
really got nothing to discuss anyway.
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Steve8

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Since: Jan 14, 2004
Posts: 616



(Msg. 41) Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 3:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Yaris, Scion xD, Honda Fit - no water temp gauge [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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jim beam wrote:

>
> that makes no logical sense because the temperature gauge is extremely
> non-linear. it doesn't really tell you anything other than whether the
> motor is in the normal range or if it's too hot. and only one of those
> two pieces of information is actually important. a light can do that
> job, probably better because you might actually pay attention!
>
> elmo's analogy is excellent because there's a lot of info about many
> things that any machine operator doesn't actually need to know - they
> only need to know if something is wrong. and this is one of those
> situations.


Oh, REALLY?

That's patently nonsense, and I can give you a concrete example. The
whole point is that the gauge will tell you when some things are wrong
that a dipshit light will not. My wife's car (1993 Chrysler LH) has an
analog temperature gauge which, despite actually being routed
second-hand through the engine computer, has come in very handy. That
car has dual electric cooling fans, and a few years ago one fan motor
failed. Because it had a GAUGE and not an idiot light, she was able to
see that it was running just slightly hotter than normal (about 1/2
division, or maybe 15 degrees F) in traffic, so we opened the hood and
checked things out. The one remaining fan *SOUNDED* normal, so I would
have ever noticed the problem without that gauge, and my wife could have
been stranded somewhere or I could have wound up with a pair of warped
cylinder heads and a ruined engine if the second fan had failed also.
Instead I was able to put the fan motor on order and then replace it
without ever having to take the car out of service except for the actual
time required to change the fan motor (about half an hour).


Similarly, I've had oil pressure gauges behaving in an abnormal way warn
me that the oil filter had collapsed internally and was bypassing all
the time- something that an idiot light would never do.

Lights are ONLY useful to call attention to a reading that's gone out of
range. Gauges warn before the problem gets critical. The best of both
worlds is a light that tells you to check the gauges.
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Elmo P. Shagnasty

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Since: Feb 15, 2004
Posts: 1100



(Msg. 42) Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:55 am
Post subject: Re: Yaris, Scion xD, Honda Fit - no water temp gauge [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Elmo P. Shagnasty

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Since: Feb 15, 2004
Posts: 1100



(Msg. 43) Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:56 am
Post subject: Re: Yaris, Scion xD, Honda Fit - no water temp gauge [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Elmo P. Shagnasty

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Since: Feb 15, 2004
Posts: 1100



(Msg. 44) Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:57 am
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ray

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Since: Oct 04, 2005
Posts: 9



(Msg. 45) Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 7:33 am
Post subject: Re: Yaris, Scion xD, Honda Fit - no water temp gauge [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Steve wrote:
>
> Lights are ONLY useful to call attention to a reading that's gone out of
> range. Gauges warn before the problem gets critical. The best of both
> worlds is a light that tells you to check the gauges.

<brag>
My 2001 Trans Am has gauges. And a "check gauges" idiot light.
And they appear to either be real gauges or very convincing software
"clones" - oil pressure starts high at a cold start, varies with RPM and
is lower at idle when the engine is warm. It even registers a bit
higher when I run 10W30 in it vs 5W30.
</brag>

Of course, it didn't come with a shift light.

Ray
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